Much to grok; until fullness, waiting is
Lizzy and I had this really interesting discussion on religion/philosophy!!
Look:
lockedjew: do u believe in evolution?
lockedjew: b/c ur conversation w/ sebbie makes it sound as tho u think that it didnt happen on its own
ESharpScore: well i think that people evolved into people for a reason
lockedjew: ie
ESharpScore: wut?
ESharpScore: well i dunno wut the reason is
lockedjew: who did the reasoning?
ESharpScore: god
lockedjew: so u believe in evolution or no?
ESharpScore: yes bc there is scientific evidence
lockedjew: how do you resolve the contradiction between taht and a belief in divine creation?
lockedjew: *that
ESharpScore: bc i dont believe that the bible is word for word correct plus, there was no written language when the earth was created, and everything was word of mouth b4 someone finally wrote it down
ESharpScore: i think that eveything is part of gods plan. including the 'big bang' and evolution
ESharpScore: i think the bible is kind of more metaphorical that 100% accurate
lockedjew: i c
lockedjew: thats interesting
lockedjew: y does god use evolution if he could just create us right away?
ESharpScore: bc maybe as evolution was occurring, all of the species had an impact on his plan
lockedjew: meaning?
ESharpScore: i dont know maybe in the future, everything will all tie together somehow
ESharpScore: i dunno this is just what i think
lockedjew: like, what do u mean by 'had an impact on his plan'?
ESharpScore: well at the times that they were on earth there was no recorded history, so we dont really know exactly what went on except that they were hunter-gatherers and the tools they had
ESharpScore: but what if it was more than that? what if there society was much more complex, but something happened to destroy as they died off? evolution eliminated their species, so maybe as time went on, their way of life was also destroyed by the species after them
lockedjew: u no what annoys me about theologicians like u?
lockedjew: no offense, beliefs is beliefs and w/e
lockedjew: but u say, 'fine, i agree w/ everything ur saying, but god would have changed it if he wanted to'
lockedjew: it makes comparing ideas impossible
lockedjew: b/c u say 'yes ur right, with this 1 thing added in that its a big plan of god'
ESharpScore: well asked why god didnt just make humans in the first place so im saying that maybe evolution is necessary for whatever outcome he's looking for
lockedjew: right, ok
ESharpScore: and no matter what u or anyone else says, no one can completely prove me wrong bc no one knows for sure what happened
lockedjew: right, but the reason noone can prove you wrong is b/c u say science is right but science is created by god
lockedjew: u subsume anything i say to prove u wrong
ESharpScore: well no bc i dont think that god interferes with stuff like ur making it seem like i do. i think that god started stuff off for us, and although he knows the outcome, hes letting us get there ourselves. its not like im underminding science
lockedjew: is there anything i can say where you dont say 'yes thats true, but it was gods initial foresight that caused that'
lockedjew: ?
ESharpScore: no bc according to christianity and probably judiasm as well, god is behind everything. like i think that he started stuff off like with the big bang, but since then everything has just run its course. hes there now just to help us
lockedjew: help us?
lockedjew: doesnt that mean interfere?
ESharpScore: no bc i dont mean help like with the species. i mean help as in prayer
lockedjew: o, like comfort our souls
lockedjew: k
ESharpScore: yeah
lockedjew: so do u believe in the biblical prophets?
lockedjew: isnt that 'interference'?
ESharpScore: well i dont really believe that much in the biblical prophets. i think that most stories in the bible are just like made up to give us hope and stuff and show us how to lead good lives.
lockedjew: jesus?
ESharpScore: i believe in jesus
lockedjew: isnt that interference?
ESharpScore: not really. thats more in the way of comforting our souls with the whole forgiveness of sins thing
ESharpScore: its not like jesus forced anyone to be christian
lockedjew: ok, true
lockedjew: that makes sense
ESharpScore: ibelieve that there were some biblical prophets but they didnt make a significant enough impact on the species to consider them "interfering" they were simply there to remind others of god.
lockedjew: ok
lockedjew: so god didnt interfere w/ stuff
lockedjew: but thats b/c he saw stuff was gonna happen
lockedjew: and it was part of his plan, right?
ESharpScore: yeah i think everything happens for a reason
lockedjew: so that makes, say, the armenian genocide and the holocaust divinely inspired?
ESharpScore: no i think that there are always going to be crazy people that do stupid things. they happen so we can learn from the moronic things that others do
ESharpScore: people arent perfect bc that would be pointless. we might as well all just live in heaven already. god's giving us a choice to follow his ways, or go to hell
lockedjew: ok, but doesnt the occurence of the holocaust after armenia, and the occurence of rwanda after polpot in cambodia prove that we arent learning?
lockedjew: ie doesnt that disprove ur argument?
lockedjew: or more to the point, why doesnt it?
ESharpScore: it proves that people are still stupid and imperfect. there will always be people who are like yeah well i could do that better and do something stupid right after someone else does
ESharpScore: and those people obviously didnt learn and are doomed to an eternity in hell
lockedjew: who goes to hell?
ESharpScore: people like hitler and murderers and such
lockedjew: define 'and such'
ESharpScore: that dont follow what god told us specifically not to do
lockedjew: so only ppl who sin by commision, but not by omission
ESharpScore: steal, etc 10 commandments that sort of thing
ESharpScore: what do u mean by that
lockedjew: like, god told us not to murder
lockedjew: and he also told us to pray daily
lockedjew: does the guy who doesnt pray daily go to hell?
lockedjew: b/c that disobeys god
ESharpScore: no bc i think that leading a godly life is good enough
ESharpScore: u lead by example
ESharpScore: and as for murderers and thieves and stuff, i believe that some of them can repent and be saved but only if they are truly remorseful and pay their debt to society. if they are repenting bc their afriad of hell then dont deserve gods grace
lockedjew: what does 'pay their debt to society' mean?
ESharpScore: jail, retribution
lockedjew: ok
lockedjew: what does 'truly remorseful' mean?
lockedjew: ie, if i murder someone
ESharpScore: they realize what they did was wrong and that they shouldnt have done it. they feel bad for those that they hurt along the way.
lockedjew: and then feel compassion for the family and wish i hadnt done it
ESharpScore: and they want to make things right
ESharpScore: i think that to an extent u will be saved
lockedjew: ok
lockedjew: now, if im a polytheist (hindu, perhaps), does that still apply?
ESharpScore: but like if u just go on killing rampages all the time and after each one ur like woah i shouldntve done that then u dont deserve to go to heaven
ESharpScore: i think that all gods are the same
ESharpScore: polytheists just think of god as a different one depending on what they're praying for. i tink that its the same god for all tho
ESharpScore: so when we go to heaven there are people from all relgions there
lockedjew: but doesnt 1 of the 10 commandments say 'u shall have no other gods besides me' or something 2 that effect?
lockedjew: isnt thinking there are many gods an inherent contradiction with the commandments?
ESharpScore: as i said i think the bible is metaphorical
ESharpScore: by "no other gods" he means like dont worship like ur radio or something like that
lockedjew: so that commandment means.... what?
lockedjew: o, ok
I need to think about this a lot, its a really good view of deism, if you want to believe in god.
Current Mood:
thoughtful